Fjord Rally 2014 on Vespa

[kolja]

Just my two cents: I go with all the points Patrick (Bündner) mentioned. It's the opinion of a person that made the norway-in-winter-experience several times. For me it's the third time and i can only emphasize Patricks suggestions:

If you're going to Norway by Bike in wintertime you're a wee bit hardcore anyway. If you have good conditions and a full day you might make 250km that day and be fine. Let the night have less than -30°C and you might be suprised in the morning that your whatsoever bike doesn't start. Depending on the situation (anybody near with a petrol-stove? anybody near to get your battery up again?) subtract 2-3 hours from the morning. So you start by 11. Or by 12. And man... 250km can be a long run once it starts to get dark again.

Take the worst case: It's shitfucking cold. It's snowing. It's lousy windy. You're wet. You're cold. You might wish to stop at any visible petrolstation to warm up a bit. Than have some spontanously occuring repairjob at the bike and you're in real trouble.

Extreme hardcore iron butt, best conditions: 300-400km (don't expect this!)
Best conditions, full day: 250km
Bad conditions: 60km can be a hard job

---

As i did not have other options, i went 400 or so kilometers to Kiel ferryterminal by motorcycle carrying my studded tyres in the back. Had the tyres changed in kiel before entering the ferry.

Would i have other options (a transporter or something), i'd pack the bike into the car and drive to Kiel. The fun starts in Norway. Nothing about being pussy not going the full way on two wheels.

---

From Gol to Gjerde (Jostedalen) or the other way around i'd plan one day. It's a good days drive.
1) Short way via Hemsedal and Hemsedalfjell (might be closed in bad weatherconditions)
2) Long - beautiful way - via Ovre Ardal, Tyinfjell, Fagernes
Not all accomodations are open in wintertime. Hotels might be very expensive. Open cabins you'll find in Gol, Fagernes and Hemsedal. Almost nothing in between there and Gjerde!
Good place to stay for one, two, three days and play/visit the vicinity by motorcycle: Gol, Fagernes.

[JAF]

Thank you very much, Jörg, Patrick and Kolja.

Your advice are very-very useful for me. Actually I am modifying my trip in that way, but I have to deal with my boss at work and my wife...:

This is my tentative road book:

Sunday 26: Pamplona-Burdeos (300km)
Monday 27: Burdeos-Peronne (750km)
Tuesday 28: Peronne-Hamburgo (775km)
Wednesday 29: Hamburgo-Puttgarden-Rodby-Helsingør (375km) ... (maybe swapping over to stud tires in Alberslund-Denmark. It depends on the road conditions) I carry my stud tires
Thursday 30: Helsingborg-Goteborg (225km)
Friday 31: Goteborg-Oslo (300km)
Saturday 1: Oslo (one spare day for any problems)
Sunday 2: Oslo-Gol (200km)
Monday 3: Gol-Sogndal (150km via Hemsedal) or (220km via Fagernes (ref. Kolja)
Tuesday 4: Sogndal-Jostedal (50km) (hotel Jostedal Fjordrally)
Wednesday 5: Fjord rally (hotel Jostedal Fjordrally)
Thursday 6: Fjord rally (hotel Jostedal Fjordrally)
Friday 7: Gjerde-road604-road55-road15-roadE6-Ringebu-Krystall (300km in three days: 7, 8 and 9)
Saturday 8: Gjerde-604-55-15-E6-Ringebu-Krystall
Sunday 9: Gjerde-604-55-15-E6-Ringebu-Krystall (Gudbrandsdal Hotel)
Monday 10: Krystall (Gudbrandsdal Hotel)
Tuesday 11: Krystall (Gudbrandsdal Hotel)
Wednesday 12: Krystall (Gudbrandsdal Hotel)
Thursday 13: Krystall-Oslo (250km)
Friday 14: Oslo-Goteborg (300km)....etc

Does that road trip sound better?

When daylight starts and ends?

My Vespa is a 300cc (it's not too much but better than old vespas), and my studs on the tyres are small. I will need a garage to swap over the tyres (I cant do it by myself). I ride with a Snow Heidenau from Pamplona to somewhere and there swap over Sawa studs tyre (I carry them in the back)

I wear a heating waiscoat, Rukka jacket, heating mittens and Snow Helmet with Electric Shield, cover blanket Tucano...but I will need also lots of hot cafe on the way!!
I also carry an extra battery (and an optimate charger) just in case I have problems in the monrning...

I'll sleep in hotels (I've booked hotel at Gol and at Sogndal, besides Jostedal hotel and Krystall hotel))

I went to Elefantentreffen last year and some others winter treffen but really smoother than Fjord or Krystall. This time is a very real winter ride for sure! (a friend of mine went to Nordkapp with other mate, from Pamplona-Spain, last February.. in a Triumph Tiger... I am just a beginner!!)

BTW, I love to ride and for that reason I rather ride instead get a Ferry or train (...the way is the goal . But of course, the "winter fun" starts in Norway...

...If my wife would read all of those emails....

If everything going well...I hope meet all you at Gol and Jostedal and toast with beer, of course!

Thank you very much from Spain!!!
All the best,
JAF

_________________
JAF
Vespa 300 GTS ie Touring 2012
Harley Rocker-C 2011

[Jörg (HRO)]

Hi,

Friday 7: Gjerde-road604-road55-road15-roadE6-Ringebu-Krystall (300km in three days: 7, 8 and 9)
Saturday 8: Gjerde-604-55-15-E6-Ringebu-Krystall
Sunday 9: Gjerde-604-55-15-E6-Ringebu-Krystall (Gudbrandsdal Hotel)

That's not possible, cause of road 55 is closed in winter in between Turtargo Hotel and Lom.
You'll find all winter closed roads and also any short time closure of roads for weather conditions on www.vegvesen.no.
((vinter)stengt - closed (in winter), midlertidig - short dated, blir ikke open i dagen - will not be opened that day, kolonnekjøring - driving in a convoy behind a snoplow)

I wear a heating waiscoat, Rukka jacket, heating mittens and Snow Helmet with Electric Shield, cover blanket Tucano...but I will need also lots of hot cafe on the way!!

Do you've tested this kombination any time in the past and know your generator can handle that extra load without discharging your battery?

The Heidenau Snow should do the job until Oslo unless there is a lot of fresh snow on the road.

Sleeping in hotels is the most expansive possibility to stop over in Norway. The better, merrier and cheaper solution is to rent a cabin on a campsite - preferably together with other guys.
On Saturday, 02-02-14 you will most probably find a lot of crazy Germans and a (Swiss guy to) at 'Gol Camping'.

Greetings,
Jörg.

[kolja]

going with jörgs opinion: hotels are verrrrry expensive in norway. best spot found so far is gol campingsenter. very nice cabins for an affordable price. and in gol you'll find others going to the fjordrally. unfortunately our cabin is full (although another person - inofficially - always would fit in).

Rv55 is closed in wintertime. The alternative route is that much longer - i skipped the same thought once i saw it. If you have the time and don't plan to go to krystal give several nice days in fagernes camping or gol campingsenter a thought (second being the cheaper, but not worse option).

if you can change: don't go from gol to sogndal. directly go to gjerde from gol. it's a good days ride. stay a day more in gol and then drive to gjerde together with several others of us (at least 4 will go to gjerde from gol the day you plan to go from sogndal to gjerde). you'll a) will have more fun in gol, b) have a much more interesting vicinity in gol c) its not easy nor cheap to get an accomodation in sogndal compared to gol and finally d) it's MUCH more fun in gol...

[Bündner]

Yes yes, the closed 55
... and follow Koljas advice: No reason to stop at Sogndal - if you can do Gol-Gjerde with others, it will be more fun and much safer.
... If your alternator can handle the heating equipment you should have warm enough (you ride a Vespa, so your Body is well protected compared to a motorcycle ... But Jörgs advice is important. If you burn p.e. your alternator your fun level will go down verrry fast. The guys that go to Norway in winter time with Light-Enduro-Bikes normaly have no or only small heating equipment because of this reason.
... studded tyres: If your tyres have short studs - maybe bring with you some screw-studs like "kold-kutter" ("Cheap", good on snow an ice, but will only last one km on asphalt, so you'd need to put them in and take them out and put them in again and ...) or "best grip" studs. Maybe somebody of the other drivers can bring you some to Gol ??? Please mesure, how long the "screw"-part can be (without making a hole in your tire ) It could be, that i find something that fits for you in my garage. Anyhow, It's no need to do this, if you stay on the main roads.
... and IF you reach Gol, we'll for sure find a place for one night in a cabin with others of us ... the shared price should keep your total costs down - Beer etc. is very expensive in Norway.
Good luck

[kolja]

JAF, went over your last answer again - two thoughts:

1.) Road to Krystall Rally - take a look on this map. The red flag to the left is the Fjordrally. The red flag to the right Krystallrally. The lots of red flags in between are two roads closed in winter to give you an impression what you could take as an alternative route. (Closed road means you suddenly stop in front of 2-4 meters of snow... )

one alternative (450km - two days drive?), another one (380km, very probably more than 1 days drive - don't know if road over fjell close to Lillehammer is open)

If i'd knew, the second alternative would be open, i'd do a two days trip towards Krystallrally:
- Day 1 - Gjerde to Fagernes (Fagernes Camping offers some very nice wooden cabins for an affordable price - very recommended! And i'd go via Ovre Ardal via the Tyinfjell - beautiful drive! You'll probably find some others taking this tour the day after Fjordrally)
- Day 2 - Fagernes to Krystallrally (if open i'd take the tour through the nationalpark is you see in the link. otherwise via Dokka and Lillehammer.)

2.) Spikes If you're tyre looks like the one shown in Jörgs Post (next) you're absolutely fine (forget next lines). If it doesn't carry the metal nails (spikes) reading on might be interesting.

JAF, how deep are the studs of your SAWA tyres? Can you measure from the top of the rubber-stud to the bottom? I'd really, really suggest using at least some spikes. Otherwise you might experience a hard time once you hit the icy roads! At least 10-20 small spikes in the frontwheel will keep you from struggling over and over.

For example the size of the smallest Best Grip Spike:
(size; minimum stud height; length of spike looking out of the rubber)
- 1.000; 5mm; 2,2mm

The longer the protruding top of the spike, the more fun on icy roads and the more lousy to drive on the black tarmac.

Full overview - you need one matching adapter to screw the spike in and out. The adapter will be put into a screwdriver that takes bits or a t-driver, a ratchet or a small electric scewdriver.

From my point of view easiest way to order a hand full of spikes is to order at Butzner.de - write an email, include size, quantity of what you want to order, your address and that you want to pay by bank-transaction. you'll receive an answer-email, pay and some days later the postman is ringing. Butzner sells all sizes and the quantity you wish. 0,70EUR/spike.

[Jörg (HRO)]

Hi,

mayby you should have a look at Visveg too.
There you can mark all winter closed roads (check box under 'map details') and calculate your trip.

@Kolja & Bündner:
Ich denk die Spikesdiskussion verwirrt hier mehr, als sie hilft. Ich gehe mal stark vom 'Scooter Gold Standard', sprich dem
'Sawa MC-32 Winter Spike' aus.
Der tut seinen Job auf der Straße hervorragend (selbst auf deutschem Glatteis) - und alles andere dürfte mit 'ner Vespa und ihren 12'' Rädchen wohl eher nicht von Interesse sein. Und zusätzliche Spikes 'nachlegen' funzt dank Lamellenprofil nicht wirklich (getestet).

@JAF:
Is that your studdet tyre:



Greetings
Jörg.

[kolja]

(Before being lost in translation: If we talk about "studs" - do we talk about
a) rubber (die Stollen des Reifens)
b) metal / spike (die metallenen Spikes)?

"a" with a bit of "b" is good. "a" completely without "b" might not be a solely good option eventually).

[JAF]

Thank you all of you!!!

I’ve been driving all day and now reading your post....

I answer and comment you by topics:

ROAD 55 CLOSED
Then, to go from Jostedal (Gjerde) to Ringebu (Krystall).
Day 1-Gjerde to Fagernes, and
Day 2 Fagernes to Krystallrally
And sleeping in wooden cabins...OK, Kolja!!!!
(I have three days (two nights) for this trip)

SPIKES
Wow!!!!!...my tires are exactly the same on your post!!! (SAVA MC32 WIN SCOOT Spike 130/70-12 RF TL 62P with studs, M+S)...Great!!!!
Besides those spikes (they are very small), I screwed some more bigger studs (by myself) but not as big than you have in your avatar-profile or kold-kutter studs as well.
I carry a bag of studs just in case, and two screwdrivers (one small electric and one manual)

I do realize that without your advice, my trip to Norway will be a real disaster: THANK YOU MATES!!
I can sleep peacefully Thank you for all the explanations!!


VESPA GENERATOR Wattage: 450w
Lights: 55w
Waiscoat: 45w at full power, but at medium power less consumption
Mittens Bagster: 47w at full power, but a medium power less consumption
Helmet: ??, but I think few watts
I have additional LEDs front lamps (45w x 2) and antifog (45w x 2) but only for special situations and never switch on at the same time.

HOTELS...
Full agree with all of you. So, I’ve just canceled the booking at the hotels.
I do appreciate sharing a cabin with any of you or others riders. So, I will stay some nights in Gol (Friday, Saturday and Sunday? and on Monday going to Jostedal with you??.
This friendship is one of the BEST things in this rally. I friend of mine who were in 2011 (Eloi Esgleas, from Spain, driving on a sidecar) told me about this. THANK YOU!!

ROAD BOOK & FERRY
After all of your advice, I think it will be better taking the ferry at Kiel (Kiel-Oslo) with you (Patrick) on Thursday, 30.
Do I have to bye a ticket in advance on the internet, or just there? what kind of ticket recommend to buy?

Sunday 26: Pamplona-Burdeos (300km)
Monday 27: Burdeos-Peronne (750km)
Tuesday 28: Peronne-Hamburgo (775km)
Wednesday 29: Hamburgo-Kiel (100km) ... (swapping over to stud tires)
Thursday 30: Ferry (Kiel-Oslo)
Friday 31: Oslo-Gol (200km)
Saturday 1: Gol
Sunday 2: Gol
Monday 3: Gol-Jostedal (200km via Hemsedal) or (270km via Fagernes (ref. Kolja)
Tuesday 4: Fjord rally (hotel Jostedal Fjordrally)
Wednesday 5: Fjord rally (hotel Jostedal Fjordrally)
Thursday 6: Fjord rally (hotel Jostedal Fjordrally)

Friday 7: Gjerde-Fargenes (225km)
Saturday 8: Fargenes-Ringebu-Krystall (164+25km)
Sunday 9: Gjerde-Ringebu-Krystall (Gudbrandsdal Hotel)
Monday 10: Krystall (Gudbrandsdal Hotel)
Tuesday 11: Krystall (Gudbrandsdal Hotel)
Wednesday 12: Krystall (Gudbrandsdal Hotel) or maybe starting the return to Spain
Thursday 13: Krystall-Oslo (250km)
Friday 14: Oslo-Goteborg (300km)....etc

Does that road trip sound better?


Thank you very much from Spain!!!

JAF

[kolja]

Ferry Kiel-Oslo
Before buying a ticket - might be bloody expensive! - contact "Jörg (HRO)" or "xchallenge" or "Bündner". If i'm informed right, they might have one or two places left in their cabins for the trip Kiel-Oslo. Otherwise expect prices starting! at minimum 300 EUR oneway.

450W generator
She'll be right, mate . You're absolutely fine with that. I'll be on my way with 195W...

Cabins
Fagernes: Fagernes Camping offers appartments (bit more expensive) and some of their cabins (reckon nr. 16-18). I don't remember the prices. But ok for the very nice cabins.
Gol: Gol Campingsenter. Cabins. The 2-3 days before and after the fjordrally several cabins should be occupied by participants of the rally. don't know if - officially - one of the already occupied cabins still has place for one person left (probably ask Jörg (HRO), Bündner). Inofficially one more person always might fit in...

Trip Planning
Sounds good to me now.