Spike

Viel Spaß !!
have fun

Moderator: shorty

Shishi
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue 31. Dec 2019, 16:44

Re: Spike

Post: # 3746Post Shishi
Thu 9. Jan 2020, 10:00

Hello guys ! :)

So, i been in contact with Best Grip France. :!:

Spikes

On the front they recommend 1600 , without mix 1600 /1800, but i keep considering this idea.
1200 totally not recommendable if the real snow come out, cause it gonna be a too short spike in their opinion
( Same price for the 1200 and 1600 , so it's not about money for them ).

On the rear tire, the new model of 2020 , the 1910-4 ( the "-4" mean "Version 4" for the French distributor ), which have to be stronger on long time use, they said. It also feet 4WD cars and small trucks.

250 spikes per tire in average ( 21" and 17" ) they said, so they make a global price of 350€ for all spikes + 2 different tools.
Your opinion about the quantity :?:

Tires

They weren't able to recommend me which tire should be the best for the way without spikes so my choice gonna be the K60 Sio2.

Then, with spikes, good choice is Continental TKC 80, especially due to its lugs position.
We call it a "Trail" Tire in France.
Very good ability to take the snow powder out thanks to the big spaces between lugs (it give a good effect, bit like a sand tire) + also the not so high but very large and strong lugs.
Even tough, they admit the TKC 80 is not famous if you have to ride there without spikes . But still better than a big lugs offroad tire on the rainy asphalt i think.
Important if Black road often and have to take some spikes off.

Before Continental released the TKC in dimensions they needed ( 17" for Supermotard ) they were using a Kenda one and was not efficient in the powder snow.
Important, they also have most of their customers riding on the TKC 80 + spikes also with "Real bikes", about 200Kg empty weight :P ,like a Africa twin or a GS, and have good results.

About the Michelin AC-10, just to share, they thought it good with spikes and keep using it but with Supermotard "light" bikes and not fucking long spikes. Don't remember what seems the maximum to them.
Seems normal to brake lugs with this one if you use a heavy bike and put long spikes on it.
Properly used, it can be a good one in their opinion.

Extra Question :mrgreen:

Everybody, what do you think about the "not screwed" spikes ? Not sure if we can use very long spikes with this technical, maybe only short & legal street car spikes. :?:

Thank you very much :D

kolja
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu 3. Nov 2011, 19:57
Location: Harz
Contact:

Re: Spike

Post: # 3747Post kolja
Thu 9. Jan 2020, 17:51

After about 10 years of driving in scandinavian winter conditions with old Africa Twin RD07a (750ccm, 240kg) and DR350/385 (135kg) my opinion:

Snow
Once your tires move through not compressed snow, you need something, that "bites" into the snow - imagine shovels. That's the point of time, where rough tires come into play. Deep profile and space between so they easily clean themselves and "bite" into the snow. The bigger the studs, the better. That's where MX-type-tires like Mitas XT, Dunlop GeoMax, Michelin AC-10 and the like shine. At the same time otherwise pretty competent universal tires like K60 or even worse TKC loose out to the point one can't make it up the road to reach the top of the mountain (and even if, it's a pain with feet down to the ground not to sink the ship).
The spikes themselve don't play any role here (they come into play once the bottom is compressed - like hard snow or ice).

Ice
Here the tires won't matter. It's only about the spikes that "bite" into the surface of the ground. No spikes and you'll go sailing, skipper. The heavier the bike, the higher the speed the bigger the chance of loosing control to the point of no return.

1.200 allows you to drive slowly on ice - carefully. No fun.
1.500 is the compromise between letting it fly, hitting the occasional tarmac and not having that much of rubber tire-wise available to screw them in - in my eyes best compromise for every condition once you have to plan to also hit the black tarmac
(1.600) bit shorter top and bottom - perhaps good compromise if 1.500 is to long threadwise - see here
1.800 the weapon if you're only in for having fun and never hit the tarmac AND have enough rubber available to screw them in

For the amount of spikes
If you take it slowly, you don't need to many. The far sides might even be ignored. But if you plan to let it fly, you should even put spikes into the very outer studs - if you have none there, you might expect interesting drift-effects up to spinning a motocycle around the own axle. I twice checked it out on playing to hard... ;)

Last winter i had to change my Mitas XT 454 green after not even 1.000km. The Dunlop Geomax MX3S soft afterwards got 2 1.500 Spikes into the middle and every outer stud got a 1.800. And boy! The bugger pushed as hell! Traction without end - even with to much air in the tire.

Big bummers
If you drive a big and heavy bike - especially with 17" back-wheel, your choices of tyres are limited. I'd suggest to choose the ones with the most aggressive, deep, open profile - and i'd say, K60 are NOT open and agressive enough. Especially on the front, K60-profile does not provide enough depth of profile to bring in bigger spikes - probably not even 1.500 (i'm not sure).

Come to TKC80 and i really, really would suggest, NOT to use them. Had several situations with friends using them on their big bikes (Stelvio in summertime) and they provided MUCH less traction (to wide, to flat blocks) and were punctured several times during a 10.000km trip while the K60s were not hit once. During the Fjordrally an italian 1.200er GS drove on TKC80 and he had to stay in the valley as he couldn't make it up the mountains due to the TKC80 which didn't provide enough traction on hard snow. His 1.200er spikes (longer didn't fit in) where no help either in that situation.

For the really big bummers - 200+kg, GS, AT, ... - the amount of usable tires is not very good. K60, TKC80 - not enough snow traction. Perhaps slightly better AX41. On my AfricaTwin i drove the Mefo MX-Master and Stonemaster. For heavy bikes perhaps the best available (although - as Björn mentioned - quality seems to have decreased during the last years). Didn't see: Jörg's mentioned Mitas C02 look good (forget your official tire dimensions - if they fit, fine). Remember: Don't buy those tyres as you would buy tires to drive on the streets, the black tarmac. Buy the tires you'd use to ride your bike heavily through the biggest and hardest dirt, mud and whatsoever.

Also keep in mind: Don't use the tires before you've put in the spikes. The rubber-height of the studs/profile will decrease significantly on the first 100-200 kilometers. Even on short distances perhaps that quick you don't have enough flesh left to put the spikes in.

A side-note: My tyres read "not for highway-use" and i've never seen that letters ... somehow. What's good in the deep dirt, is also good to drive on snow and ice (of course with heavy bikes different story). Just add the extra security of spikes.
2nd side-note: If the tires are too extremely soft, the rubber will bend with the torque applied between tire and ground (tarmac, ice). Once they bend, the soft-side of the spikes are hit. Not good. Slightly soft tires alright. Too soft - not good.
3rd side-note: With spikes - especially heavy bikes - become wobbly. Take it easy. Let it wobble. If it's to much, decreasing the air-pressure in the tire slightly, might help a lot. If you need max-traction up a hill, the same. But lot less pressure and tire-holders.

Good luck.

---

Which ferry do you take to go to scandinavia? I think to remember, that in Kiel (Colorline Kiel-Oslo) pretty close to the ferry-port (on the way to it) there was a possibility to store tires. With a bit of time you could drive there, change tires and do the last 500m/kilometer with your mounted spiketires (expect them to surprise you a bit... ;) ). A.T.U. might have been that shop - worth a try: https://www.google.de/maps/place/A.T.U+ ... 10.1390867
Last edited by kolja on Thu 9. Jan 2020, 20:49, edited 4 times in total.
Reason: ferry

Shishi
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue 31. Dec 2019, 16:44

Re: Spike

Post: # 3748Post Shishi
Thu 9. Jan 2020, 22:27

What a great answer. Many thanks to take time to give it to me :D

Tires

About the K60 Sio2 I never planned to use it with spikes but only on slippy asphalt on the way to the boat.
Their "V" lugs profile also have a bad reputation in off road use, it can't get grip inside the mud due to this, should be same in the snow.
Didn't tried them in the mud yet.
Maybe something more "Road" that could be better on very cold asphalt, have to give a better look.

For the spike one, thanks for the opinion about the TKC 80. I will make my choice in every thing i got in this topic at this time.

Thank you to remember to don't use it without spikes ! What a shit to lost an available tires for spikes like that :roll:

Spikes
Then I will make my choice as soon i have the tires to check how much mm i can use.
Nothing other than 1500(or1600) + 1910, at this time :P

Gonna check myself for the quantity, but 250 should be honest.

-------------------------

For the ferry, I should take it in Denmark... but thank you any way for the idea.
Don't know yet if i take the tires my self or go to "meet" it :P Have to see, It will depend on the place on the bike with luggage.

kolja
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu 3. Nov 2011, 19:57
Location: Harz
Contact:

Re: Spike

Post: # 3749Post kolja
Thu 9. Jan 2020, 23:14

The K60 are a very good choice for the roads up to the ferry. They actually can also cope better with mud than most people think - http://www.perfectbluesky.de/index.php? ... 6#cpid5106 - but you've got to take it slow and gently. To let it really fly you need more dirt-competent tires.

If you can, drive with the K60s up to the ferry and than change over to the more snow-/mud-competent tires (my choice'd be Jörg's Mitas C02) - optimally already fully spiked (putting in the spikes is a much more comfortable job at home, dry and warm than in a cold, wet snowstorm ;) ).

One thing i forgot: Don't take out the spikes again. Leave them in the tire. They will protect the tire's rubber. And you can easily drive with them mounted. Just take it easy.

Hirtshals is a very far distance. I planned to put my motocycle into my transporter and take the Hirtshals-Larvik/Langesund/Kristiansand-Route next week. With the transporter (over to Norway) it's cheap, easy driving and i can sleep in the back beside the bike. Riding directly with bike i would probably tend more to check wether Kiel-Oslo would be an option. You can sleep while others are driving the full length of Denmark. You've got quite an interesting entertainment onboard - you can party all night long including pubs, live music, musical and the like. You've got holiday from 14:00 one day to 10:00 the next day. And in Kiel close to the harbour you can change your tires. If the prices are acceptable, that would be my suggestion.

Hirtshals probably is quite a bit cheaper. But you've got to invest a day of work (driving) + probably a paid night somewhere coupled with much less fun and entertainment. Colorline Kiel-Oslo can run something like checking in, finding the room, strolling up to the ships top to see it leave the harbour, go to the front view lounge in the top and have a coffee/drink, perhaps have a short nap in the cabin, move out to have a pizza or a meal together with beer or wine; move over to the pub (where the live music plays), move to the upper bar (where then the live music plays), move to the musical (where the really big show plays), move to the next live music and perhaps finally move to the disco when most others already have fallen asleep. Just to have it mentioned... ;)

Last thing: Pack light. You'll really hate every unnecessary kilogram later. Remember my words... ;)

Have fun

Shishi
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue 31. Dec 2019, 16:44

Re: Spike

Post: # 3750Post Shishi
Mon 13. Jan 2020, 15:27

Yes the K60 are not that bad on a 125 i have but didn't tried yet with a big bike.

I just think there is nothing more competent in 21"/17" than the K60 with silicia to make a winter trip like that until Denmark.
If you guys know something better than i do, keep sharing ! Cause the Germans winter road are not the French ones, you may have better things on your catalogs :P

Yeah, it seems perfectly logical to don't take out the spikes due to the hole. Thanks for the advice.

Cannot afford the ferry from Germany. Keep being cheaper with my calculations + the Denmark is full of nice people :P

I'll do my best to pack light, because i know how difficult it is to do the penguin with luggage !
About that, do you recommend some spikes on my shoes :?:
Because some people use in Scandinavia with a switchable system on their city winter shoes.
I'm curious about the possibility to stand up with the bike ( without stand outside :roll: ) on a full ice floor + no spikes boots, like some Sorel or Baffin

Many thanks !! ;)

User avatar
börni
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed 12. Jan 2011, 19:17

Re: Spike

Post: # 3751Post börni
Mon 13. Jan 2020, 16:02

I have no spikes on my shoes and have never needed them before
Tortourguide
Lebe jeden Tag als wäre es der Letzte!
Sarkasmus ist die Fähigkeit Idioten zu beleidigen ohne das sie es merken.

kolja
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu 3. Nov 2011, 19:57
Location: Harz
Contact:

Re: Spike

Post: # 3752Post kolja
Mon 13. Jan 2020, 20:56

K60 Silica is a very good choice onroad on black tarmac without ice and snow. Behind the ferry - once snow and ice start to become dominant, a more offroad-competent tire with spikes will do MUCH better. K60 Silica on hard snow is still driveable, but one's got to be VERY careful.

@Björn: My mate from West-Sweden (mountains) told me that February and even March are much more reliable snow-wise than January in their area. So let's cross fingers for a bit more of that white stuff than right now...

Shishi
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue 31. Dec 2019, 16:44

Re: Spike

Post: # 3753Post Shishi
Mon 13. Jan 2020, 21:40

All right, we think same !

Did they got, at this time, a normal snow season in South Norway, or quite bad ?

kolja
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu 3. Nov 2011, 19:57
Location: Harz
Contact:

Re: Spike

Post: # 3754Post kolja
Mon 13. Jan 2020, 22:09

Let's call it quite springy. I remember times with up to -40°C in winter-scandinavia (quite cold, but as the air's dry, it feels less uncomfortable than @ -5°C with much humidity). Right now they're between +5 and -5 in the south and further north right now up to -10°C (it's slowly becoming a bit colder after having plus-degrees up towards the polar circle the last weeks). We've been driving ON the baltic see with 3 motocycles two years ago close to Oulo (Finland) about a kilometer away from the coastline (the northern baltic sea wasn't completely frozen by then (5km away from the coast the ice became open water) - although we had about -35°C one morning). Reckon by now there's no ice at all up there.

Watching temps, snowfall, streetcams and the like since about two weeks everyday since i wanted to go towards Kiruna by bike this week. Cancelled the trip as it's been to warm the last weeks and to many streets are black - especially in Sweden. Reckon and hope, situation will improve a bit during the next weeks. The high mountains in Norway don't look to bad. It's just the south and Sweden that could be a bit more spike-friendly.

www.ventusky.com - beside Temps you can also inspect eg. snow-heights and snow fallen since a certain time (2nd? option from bottom); it's cooling down a bit right now (blue, green instead yellow the last weeks)
www.vegvesen.no/trafikkbeta - right upper edge "menu" switch on cams and temps - quite helpful

Shishi
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue 31. Dec 2019, 16:44

Re: Spike

Post: # 3756Post Shishi
Mon 13. Jan 2020, 22:39

Hum... then, I wish you the best for the following days / weeks, and to do not overheat your engine :P although the ass is the first to overheat in cases like that !

Did you ever seen someone with flat tire due to a "bad weather" :?: (too much black asphalt + too big spikes)

Give also a look over there
www.windy.com

Yours seems to have few things Windy do not have. Don't know about the reliability who's the best to be honest.

Post Reply